Discussion:
NHLFU
(too old to reply)
Ogie Ogelthorpe
2005-02-16 23:44:31 UTC
Permalink
http://www.nhlfu.ca/

'nuff said

OO
turk
2005-02-17 00:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Heh...that's pretty cool. I really want one of those t-shirts.

turk
--
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken,
Baltimore Evening Sun on 26 July 1920
Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe
http://www.nhlfu.ca/
'nuff said
OO
NJDvsF'ers
2005-02-17 00:03:41 UTC
Permalink
That is a great piece of artwork. I just may have to invest in one.
--
Chris
"Yet he can see through a brick wall in time. (As they say in Bree)"
Time and change will surely show
How firm thy friendship O-hi-o
Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe
http://www.nhlfu.ca/
'nuff said
OO
Buff
2005-02-17 05:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe
http://www.nhlfu.ca/
'nuff said
OO
The letters PA are missing in your subject as well as the link. The
players association caused the season to be cancelled. They had piss
poor leadership from Goodenow and Saskin, under different leadership a
deal probably would have been made to save the season, back in September.

The NHL, NHLPA, agents and fans (yes fans) caused the lockout, but I
place all the blame of the cancellation in the hands of the PA.

FUPA!
Ironside
2005-02-17 06:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Buff
Post by Ogie Ogelthorpe
http://www.nhlfu.ca/
'nuff said
OO
The letters PA are missing in your subject as well as the link. The
players association caused the season to be cancelled. They had piss poor
leadership from Goodenow and Saskin, under different leadership a deal
probably would have been made to save the season, back in September.
The NHL, NHLPA, agents and fans (yes fans) caused the lockout, but I place
all the blame of the cancellation in the hands of the PA.
FUPA!
They're both equally to blame IMO. The owners planned on cancelling the
season all along. There are going to be 2 years worth of free agents and
expired contracts to be negotiated when all is said and done. Tied in with a
salary cap probably much less than the $42.5 million they put on the table,
they will have achieve a greater rollback than the 24% that they were
offered by the players. There will be veterans forced to play for less than
$1 million or retire. The NHLPA was arrogant, but the owners are calculating
that they can do even better by cancelling the season, and squeezing the
players even harder for the next 6 months.
Bob Levine
2005-02-17 14:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ironside
They're both equally to blame IMO. The owners planned on cancelling the
season all along. There are going to be 2 years worth of free agents and
expired contracts to be negotiated when all is said and done. Tied in with a
salary cap probably much less than the $42.5 million they put on the table,
they will have achieve a greater rollback than the 24% that they were
offered by the players. There will be veterans forced to play for less than
$1 million or retire. The NHLPA was arrogant, but the owners are calculating
that they can do even better by cancelling the season, and squeezing the
players even harder for the next 6 months.
How do you figure? The league put an offer with no linkage at all on the
table with a hard cap of $42.5 million. I'm still in shock that this
offer wasn't put to a vote.

Bob
Iain Fraser
2005-02-17 14:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Because all offers have been withdrawn - it's a new ballgame folks.
Post by Bob Levine
Post by Ironside
They're both equally to blame IMO. The owners planned on cancelling the
season all along. There are going to be 2 years worth of free agents and
expired contracts to be negotiated when all is said and done. Tied in
with a salary cap probably much less than the $42.5 million they put on
the table, they will have achieve a greater rollback than the 24% that
they were offered by the players. There will be veterans forced to play
for less than $1 million or retire. The NHLPA was arrogant, but the
owners are calculating that they can do even better by cancelling the
season, and squeezing the players even harder for the next 6 months.
How do you figure? The league put an offer with no linkage at all on the
table with a hard cap of $42.5 million. I'm still in shock that this offer
wasn't put to a vote.
Bob
t***@attbi.com
2005-02-17 15:03:46 UTC
Permalink
And why weren't the owners allowed to vote on the $49 mil cap? I'll
bet that would have passed with flying colors, but Bettman never
consulted them. The PA gave in on a salary cap and offered a 24% pay
cut, the exact things Bettman demanded, and he still said no. Bettman
had no intention of playing this season. He wanted to break the union
and punish Goodenow.

turk
Bob Levine
2005-02-17 15:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@attbi.com
And why weren't the owners allowed to vote on the $49 mil cap? I'll
bet that would have passed with flying colors, but Bettman never
consulted them. The PA gave in on a salary cap and offered a 24% pay
cut, the exact things Bettman demanded, and he still said no. Bettman
had no intention of playing this season. He wanted to break the union
and punish Goodenow.
They weren't looking to do anything except put a CBA in place that would
at least give them a chance to make a profit. The last proposal would
have allowed for an average salary of over $2 million for capped teams.
Goodenow blew it and right now I'm pretty sure he knows it.

And I'm pretty sure the rank and file knows it, too. He's history.

Bob
Ironside
2005-02-17 15:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Levine
Post by t***@attbi.com
And why weren't the owners allowed to vote on the $49 mil cap? I'll
bet that would have passed with flying colors, but Bettman never
consulted them. The PA gave in on a salary cap and offered a 24% pay
cut, the exact things Bettman demanded, and he still said no. Bettman
had no intention of playing this season. He wanted to break the union
and punish Goodenow.
They weren't looking to do anything except put a CBA in place that would
at least give them a chance to make a profit. The last proposal would have
allowed for an average salary of over $2 million for capped teams.
Goodenow blew it and right now I'm pretty sure he knows it.
And I'm pretty sure the rank and file knows it, too. He's history.
Just wait till they actually have a cap in place and have two years worth of
free agents on the market. It will be a big time buyers market, and with the
restrictions of a cap, salaries will fall like a rock.
t***@attbi.com
2005-02-17 17:19:37 UTC
Permalink
If Goodenow goes and Bettman doesn't, this league is doomed anyway.
The NHL can't survive another decade of his mismangement. He's run it
into the ground already.

turk
Bob Levine
2005-02-17 17:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@attbi.com
If Goodenow goes and Bettman doesn't, this league is doomed anyway.
The NHL can't survive another decade of his mismangement. He's run it
into the ground already.
His biggest mistake was allowing the owners to cave in 10 years ago. He
didn't let them do that this time.

Bob
Marior
2005-02-17 20:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Levine
Post by t***@attbi.com
And why weren't the owners allowed to vote on the $49 mil cap? I'll
bet that would have passed with flying colors, but Bettman never
consulted them. The PA gave in on a salary cap and offered a 24% pay
cut, the exact things Bettman demanded, and he still said no. Bettman
had no intention of playing this season. He wanted to break the union
and punish Goodenow.
They weren't looking to do anything except put a CBA in place that would
at least give them a chance to make a profit. The last proposal would
have allowed for an average salary of over $2 million for capped teams.
Goodenow blew it and right now I'm pretty sure he knows it.
Yes, its amazing that he turned down anything this close to the penthouse
level as the elevator's clearly going down now...The no hand bluff, and
riding all on the assumption that the NHL would fold 1st was an extremely
high stakes game that was predictably lost. All the NHL had to do to win
the round was NOT fold and they knew it going in. This has been like
watching an extremely slo-mo known result.
Post by Bob Levine
And I'm pretty sure the rank and file knows it, too. He's history.
Definitely. When you lose it all, as Goodenough just did you don't get to
sit at the card table anymore.
Sometime soon we should hear an announcement, a new provisional head,
hopefully not Saskin (The whole NHLPA brass should go down for this) that
should start by immediately taking a deal making tact. The war is
essentially over, the loser doesn't get to negotiate the peace treaty. Time
for somebody to take the lumps, sign on the line quick and hope its still a
40 cap just as a goodwill gesture.
bri719
2005-02-17 20:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Levine
They weren't looking to do anything except put a CBA in place that
would at least give them a chance to make a profit. The last proposal
would have allowed for an average salary of over $2 million for capped
teams. Goodenow blew it and right now I'm pretty sure he knows it.
45M / 27 = $2M? how exactly do you figure?

If you think the veterans like the Luc Robitailles of the world are
worth $1.6-1.8M a season that's a pretty sad statement. I don't really
think the league tried as much as they say they did at the end.

then again, 45M is more than I expected the NHLPA to receive an offer
for. but that's not saying too much. I think if they could have just
agreed on 48 Mil we'd be watching hockey right now. what's so hard
about that Gary?

bri
--
* enjoying the karma *
remove LKJSDFJSD from address to email
Bob Levine
2005-02-17 20:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by bri719
Post by Bob Levine
They weren't looking to do anything except put a CBA in place that
would at least give them a chance to make a profit. The last proposal
would have allowed for an average salary of over $2 million for capped
teams. Goodenow blew it and right now I'm pretty sure he knows it.
45M / 27 = $2M? how exactly do you figure?
Where are you coming up with 27? As far as I'm concerned there are 20
players. Any additional guys are just up and down minor leaguers.

Bob
Marior
2005-02-17 16:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@attbi.com
And why weren't the owners allowed to vote on the $49 mil cap?
Thats a possibility if they were asked to ratify. But that would come if at
all only AFTER a player vote or a can't refuse sweet deal wouldn't it? In
all labor stoppages first blink is duly avoided and the NHL did what they
needed to do. That they are dealing with a hopelessly deluded current
workforce makes their job exceedingly difficult.

I'll
Post by t***@attbi.com
bet that would have passed with flying colors,
I'll bet a few of the NHL offers would pass flying colors too but NEITHER
party consulted with a real row call aside from the "would you accept a cap
in the wording" little survey which passed with the membership....FTR
Ownership would rarely put to a vote before getting pretty much what they
want in ANY labor deal. You're dreaming and just blaming the owners for
playing ball. The games called under my thumb. Sucks to be NHLPA for once.
The free rides over. Better get on the cart anyway or get left behind.

but Bettman never
Post by t***@attbi.com
consulted them.
and you know this how?

The PA gave in on a salary cap and offered a 24% pay
Post by t***@attbi.com
cut, the exact things Bettman demanded,
uh, no.
Post by t***@attbi.com
and he still said no.
to his credit

Bettman
Post by t***@attbi.com
had no intention of playing this season.
The NHLPA membership scattered all over the world did?!? its this type of
comment that so ignores own stance while calling kettle on the other that
forces me to ask... are you Goodenoughs bro?
Post by t***@attbi.com
He wanted to break the union
Ya think?
Post by t***@attbi.com
and punish Goodenow.
The S&M games I could care less aboot.
t***@attbi.com
2005-02-17 17:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Holy christ, you're ignorant if the facts. Bettman wanted a cap and
cut in salaries and he got it. Thing is, the cap number he wanted in
place had only been exceeded by 9 teams anyways. How sensible is that?
Not to mention, how is his argument that a cap is needed for
competition's sake even remotely valid in the NHL? Look at the last
Stanley Cup...Tampa and Vancouver, both small market teams. Look at
the Rangers payroll and their wins and losses. His rationale is
ridiculously simple minded and flat out a lie, like most of the things
that come out of his mouth.

Fact is, the NHL has declined steadily in revenue and fan support since
the day Bettman took over. Make no mistake about it: Bettman runs the
league. When it comes down to it, he is the commissioner and he's the
one responsible for the mess hockey is in. Maybe if he could get a
decent TV contract, the league wouldn't be in this mess. He's been
incompetent and he knows it. His only hope is to break the union to
for the sake of the owners to try to get their confidence back.
Problem is, his ultimatums and shifting demands backfired. And now the
owners will be getting 0% of $0, just like the players.

Again, I'm not exactly in Bob Goorenow's fan club, but he's not the one
to blame for the mismanagement of the NHL. That lies at Bettman's
doorstep. If he can't be held responsible, then he'd have to be a lame
duck commissioner. So, he's either incompetent or powerless or both.
Either way, he needs to go.

turk
Rod's news
2005-02-17 18:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@attbi.com
Holy christ, you're ignorant if the facts.
Careful !!

Bettman wanted a cap and
Post by t***@attbi.com
cut in salaries and he got it. Thing is, the cap number he wanted in
place had only been exceeded by 9 teams anyways.
That's like saying an uncurbed corner in the mountains can be signed for 100
MPH, because MOST people will have the common sense (or lack an automobile
capable of doing so) to take the curve slower. Does that make the sign
acceptable ??

How sensible is that?
Post by t***@attbi.com
Not to mention, how is his argument that a cap is needed for
competition's sake even remotely valid in the NHL?
Perhaps if we tell you it infers "LEAGUE_WIDE competitiveness", you'll
understand. If you can't "see" that concept, then I'm wondering how far back
we have to go to start.

Look at the last
Post by t***@attbi.com
Stanley Cup...Tampa and Vancouver,
ROTFFLMFARO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yuh ......
I - like Mario, have time for this sermon !! LOLOL
Marior
2005-02-17 19:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod's news
Post by t***@attbi.com
Holy christ, you're ignorant if the facts.
Careful !!
The above was priceless considering the rest of his bunk. maybe Saskins
relative or something. this guys trying to make us laugh or something Rod.
I hope, for his benefit...
Post by Rod's news
Bettman wanted a cap and
Post by t***@attbi.com
cut in salaries and he got it. Thing is, the cap number he wanted in
place had only been exceeded by 9 teams anyways.
That's like saying an uncurbed corner in the mountains can be signed for 100
MPH, because MOST people will have the common sense (or lack an automobile
capable of doing so) to take the curve slower. Does that make the sign
acceptable ??
How sensible is that?
Post by t***@attbi.com
Not to mention, how is his argument that a cap is needed for
competition's sake even remotely valid in the NHL?
Perhaps if we tell you it infers "LEAGUE_WIDE competitiveness", you'll
understand. If you can't "see" that concept, then I'm wondering how far back
we have to go to start.
LOL, its like a time warp with some of these people that fall off a turnip
truck, learn to plug in a computer and start flailing away oblivious to the
myriad arguments that have gone before and have been SHUT DOWN!!! I'd
suppose its like getting knocked out before you enter the ring but some
don't ever realize......
Post by Rod's news
Look at the last
Post by t***@attbi.com
Stanley Cup...Tampa and Vancouver,
ROTFFLMFARO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yuh ......
I - like Mario, have time for this sermon !! LOLOL
Its just too much! <G> So who's gonna cross post this to Nucks ng for a
laugh? They might appreciate the revisionist history.

I could string this thread along and it might be good for some easy dejavu
comic relief but whats the point really?
Rod's news
2005-02-17 16:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Levine
How do you figure? The league put an offer with no linkage at all on the
table with a hard cap of $42.5 million. I'm still in shock that this offer
wasn't put to a vote.
YUP !!!!! The players have no clue (or simply were gagged) of the potential
(or already real) damage they're doing to their 'earning potential'.
Post by Bob Levine
Bob
EJ
2005-02-18 05:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Clueless wankers.

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